DOES ISAIAH 22:12-14 TEACH THAT EATING MEAT IS A SIN?
This is the result of a Bible study I did when I was told that Isaiah 22:12-14 teaches that eating meat is a sin:
"Thank you so much for explaining to me a little more about SDARM (Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement). I appreciate it greatly as you can never quite get an accurate view of an organization by asking someone who opposes it. (e.g. you would not get a clear understanding of Adventist teaching if you asked an ex-Adventist, you would not get a clear understanding of JW teaching if you asked an ex-JW.) The best way to get a clear understanding of what a church teaches is by asking those that believe it.
Anyway, I'll stick to one point and that's the one about eating meat being a sin. I cannot accept that doctrine and these are the reasons:
Isaiah 22:12-14,
'And in that day the Lord GOD of hosts
Called for weeping and for mourning,
For baldness and for girding with sackcloth.
But instead, joy and gladness,
Slaying oxen and killing sheep,
Eating meat and drinking wine:
“Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”
Then it was revealed in my hearing by the LORD of hosts,
“Surely for this iniquity there will be no atonement for you,
Even to your death,” says the Lord GOD of hosts."'
This passage does not declare that eating meat is a sin. God said these people had committed iniquity...but the question is how?
The passage tells us of 6 things these people did: 1) were joyful, 2) had gladness, 3) slayed oxen, 4) killed sheep, 5) ate meat, and 6) drank wine.
If we conclude that it was their actions alone that were the iniquity, we must then believe it a sin to be joyful, have gladness, slay oxen, kill sheep, eat meat and drink wine.
We know that it is not a sin to be joyful, we know that is is not a sin to be glad...for the Bible tells us to be these things. "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." - Psalm 118:24 (and 1 Thes 5:16, etc)
We know that slaying oxen and killing sheep is not a sin...for God commanded such things. "When a bullock, or a sheep, or a goat, is brought forth, then it shall be seven days under the dam; and from the eighth day and thenceforth it shall be accepted for an offering made by fire unto the LORD." Lev. 22:27, etc.
Since the Bible is clear that it was not their specific actions that were the iniquity...what was it?
The answer is found in the very first words of the passage...the very first verse... "And in that day the Lord GOD of hosts Called for weeping and for mourning, For baldness and for girding with sackcloth." - Isaiah 22:12
God had told the people that it was a time for repentance and sorrow...He "called" for it, and yet the people did not obey His voice.
In spite of what He had called for, they turned their backs and said, "Hey, since He is going to destroy us anyway, we might as well live it up and have fun while we still can!" And they did not repent.
"And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: 'Let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we shall die.'" - Isaiah 22:13
If we look at what the Bible tells us...we see that these people turned their back on God, refusing to repent of their sins and choosing instead to indulge and party as long as they could until their punishment came. And this is why God then said...
"And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts." - Isaiah 22:14
They would not turn away from their sinfulness, would not repent and seek God, even 'til their death.
That is only a deeper look at the passage of Isaiah 22:12-14...but here is the true reason we cannot accept that eating meat is a sin:
If God declared in the days of Isaiah that eating meat is a sin...we must then conclude that Jesus Christ sinned by eating fish, and caused others to sin by giving them fish to eat.
"But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence." - Luke 24:41-43
"And when He had taken the five loaves and the two fish, He looked up to heaven, blessed and broke the loaves, and gave them to His disciples to set before them; and the two fish He divided among them all. So they all ate and were filled." - Mark 6:41, 42
It is the little twists on Bible truths, even to teach a good thing like vegetarianism, that may seem harmless but have terrible consequences when brought to their logical conclusion. We have to be ever so careful when believing a "Bible doctrine" that it is truly what the Bible teaches, plain the clear, without any man's thoughts applied to the texts.
When we say that "The Bible teaches..." we are treading on holy ground, for the Bible is the word of God Himself and we dare not put words in God's mouth or declare that He teaches something that He truly does not.
Again, I want to thank you so much for what you've shared with me about SDARM doctrines...it has helped a great deal, and I have more studying to do on some of these things, in particular the Battle of Armageddon. God bless you!
-Todd
Showing posts with label Christian Diet. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Christian Diet. Show all posts
Saturday, April 17, 2010
Continued Discussion on Vegetarianism
The following is part of an email conversation I was having with a friend.
My Response:
It is very clear from those statements that God's people will not be eating meat...and again, I believe it. But I cannot come to a place where I say to eat meat is a sin because Christ ate meat. And I cannot say that Christ was anything less than perfect in any age. He is our example, our only perfect example, and we are to walk even as He walked, according to His Father's will. And I know that it is His will for His remnant people now to abstain from eating flesh...not because it is a sin in itself, but because it is now become altogether harmful to us to eat meat.
What I'm saying is that I think you are right...very very right. But I cannot call meat-eating a sin in itself, because I cannot say that Jesus did something sinful or that He allowed His people to do something sinful...
The reason we are not to eat meat now is not that the act is sinful, but because "Disease is accumulating rapidly. The curse of God is upon the earth, because man has cursed it. The habits and practices of men have brought the earth into such a condition that some other food than animal food must be substituted for the human family." {CD 384.5}
Because of how we have defiled the world the animals are no longer safe for us.
Conclusion:
I've heard before that God's people will eventually stop eating meat sometime before the end. It was over a hundred years ago when we first heard that message and began saying, "Yes, eventually..."
If what we teach is true, then the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is close, even at the door. Yet we are still saying, "Yes, eventually..." I believe the time is now...give it up if you haven't already. What would stop you?
My Response:
It is very clear from those statements that God's people will not be eating meat...and again, I believe it. But I cannot come to a place where I say to eat meat is a sin because Christ ate meat. And I cannot say that Christ was anything less than perfect in any age. He is our example, our only perfect example, and we are to walk even as He walked, according to His Father's will. And I know that it is His will for His remnant people now to abstain from eating flesh...not because it is a sin in itself, but because it is now become altogether harmful to us to eat meat.
What I'm saying is that I think you are right...very very right. But I cannot call meat-eating a sin in itself, because I cannot say that Jesus did something sinful or that He allowed His people to do something sinful...
The reason we are not to eat meat now is not that the act is sinful, but because "Disease is accumulating rapidly. The curse of God is upon the earth, because man has cursed it. The habits and practices of men have brought the earth into such a condition that some other food than animal food must be substituted for the human family." {CD 384.5}
Because of how we have defiled the world the animals are no longer safe for us.
Conclusion:
I've heard before that God's people will eventually stop eating meat sometime before the end. It was over a hundred years ago when we first heard that message and began saying, "Yes, eventually..."
If what we teach is true, then the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is close, even at the door. Yet we are still saying, "Yes, eventually..." I believe the time is now...give it up if you haven't already. What would stop you?
Friday, April 16, 2010
Christians Should Be Animal Lovers
Recently I saw one of those YouTube videos that exposes the unfathomable cruelty and torture we humans inflict on God's precious creatures. It is extremely difficult for someone like me to watch videos like that and I usually cannot bring myself to do it. It is a very painful and heart-breaking experience.
Anyway, in the comments to that video there was a passage from the pen of inspiration which spoke to my heart and which I will share below. Let it be a grave warning to those who would dare to bring such pain to the animals over which we have been given dominion.
"God, who created man, made the animals, also. They were to minister to man’s comfort and happiness, to serve him, and to be controlled by him. But this power was not to be used to cause pain by harsh punishment or cruel exaction.
Yet some are as reckless and unfeeling toward their faithful animals as though the poor brutes had not flesh and nerve that can quiver with pain. Many do not think that their cruelty will ever be known, because the poor dumb beasts cannot reveal it. But could the eyes of these men be opened, as were the eyes of Balaam, they would see an angel of God standing as a witness to testify against them in the courts above. A record goes up to Heaven, and a day is coming when judgment will be pronounced against men who make themselves demons by their dealings with God’s creatures.
If animals could speak, what deeds of horror would be revealed—what tales of suffering, because of the perversity of man’s temper! How often those creatures of God’s care suffer pain, endure hunger and thirst, because they cannot make known their wants. And how often is it determined by the mercy or the caprice of man, whether they receive attention and kindness, or neglect and abuse.
Punishment given in passion to an animal is frequently excessive, and is then absolute cruelty. Animals have a kind of dignity and self-respect, akin to that possessed by human beings." - Signs of the Times, November 25, 1880.
Unless you think such a sentiment can not be found in the Bible...
"A righteous man regards the life of his animal, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." - Proverbs 12:10
If you do not regard the life of your animals...God says you are not a righteous man.
"And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?" - Jonah 4:11
Can you see in that Scripture that God cares for animals?
"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day." - Genesis 1:26-31
"Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him." - Genesis 2:19, 20
Can you see in those Scriptures that God has placed His creatures into our care, just like He's placed His planet into our care? It is a divine privilege...and a divine responsibility.
"For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. I know all the birds of the mountains, and the wild beasts of the field are Mine." - Psalm 50:10, 11
Take a guess what the foundational principle is on which we build our doctrine of how we should relate to animals? Of course...love.
God is an animal lover, shouldn't we be?
Anyway, in the comments to that video there was a passage from the pen of inspiration which spoke to my heart and which I will share below. Let it be a grave warning to those who would dare to bring such pain to the animals over which we have been given dominion.
"God, who created man, made the animals, also. They were to minister to man’s comfort and happiness, to serve him, and to be controlled by him. But this power was not to be used to cause pain by harsh punishment or cruel exaction.
Yet some are as reckless and unfeeling toward their faithful animals as though the poor brutes had not flesh and nerve that can quiver with pain. Many do not think that their cruelty will ever be known, because the poor dumb beasts cannot reveal it. But could the eyes of these men be opened, as were the eyes of Balaam, they would see an angel of God standing as a witness to testify against them in the courts above. A record goes up to Heaven, and a day is coming when judgment will be pronounced against men who make themselves demons by their dealings with God’s creatures.
If animals could speak, what deeds of horror would be revealed—what tales of suffering, because of the perversity of man’s temper! How often those creatures of God’s care suffer pain, endure hunger and thirst, because they cannot make known their wants. And how often is it determined by the mercy or the caprice of man, whether they receive attention and kindness, or neglect and abuse.
Punishment given in passion to an animal is frequently excessive, and is then absolute cruelty. Animals have a kind of dignity and self-respect, akin to that possessed by human beings." - Signs of the Times, November 25, 1880.
Unless you think such a sentiment can not be found in the Bible...
"A righteous man regards the life of his animal, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." - Proverbs 12:10
If you do not regard the life of your animals...God says you are not a righteous man.
"And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?" - Jonah 4:11
Can you see in that Scripture that God cares for animals?
"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day." - Genesis 1:26-31
"Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him." - Genesis 2:19, 20
Can you see in those Scriptures that God has placed His creatures into our care, just like He's placed His planet into our care? It is a divine privilege...and a divine responsibility.
"For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. I know all the birds of the mountains, and the wild beasts of the field are Mine." - Psalm 50:10, 11
Take a guess what the foundational principle is on which we build our doctrine of how we should relate to animals? Of course...love.
God is an animal lover, shouldn't we be?
Saturday, March 21, 2009
Today at Church
So today at church my buddy John preached on Jonah. Good stuff but didn't really hit home with me personally.
The guys at Sabbath school began talking about things like how all churches should face west, like Daniel prayed to the west, and that a church facing east was somehow related to worshiping the sun. God help our church.
Another thing they were talking about was how vital it was in these days not to eat meat, and that anyone who hadn't cut meat completely out of their diet would not be translated. Apparently there is a passage in SOP that says something along those lines. They went on about this for like 10 minutes.
Come on, we know Daniel was praying toward the west because that was toward where the temple had been in Jerusalem. They knew that too, but still there was this strange emphasis. As for the meat...it may well be that those of us still in the remnant after the shaking will all be eating a simple diet without meat...but is that really the point? It's certainly not the vegetarian diet that is going to save anyone, so why give it such undue focus? Where is the focus on Christ and His death on the cross...and His unsearchable love yearning for us to accept His grace?
Our faith in Christ is what will save us. It may indeed be that He will work in us to stop eating meat as we near His coming, but if we haven't placed our true faith and trust in Him in the first place we're going to be lost regardless of what we eat. This is what Christ meant when He said "Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man." (Matt 15:11) There is no saving power in our diet. God help our church.
I was reading my Bible during Sabbath school and this is the passage that Christ brought me to, and had me stay and focus on:
"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy." (James 3:17)
That's a beautiful verse, and the entire passage of James 3:13-18 is so rich with blessings if we meditate on it. Perhaps I'll do a post looking at this passage in the future. We'll see.
My favorite part at church today was singing Hymn #448, "O, When Shall I See Jesus"! That is such an uplifting hymn and it made my spirit soar.
Happy Sabbath :-)
The guys at Sabbath school began talking about things like how all churches should face west, like Daniel prayed to the west, and that a church facing east was somehow related to worshiping the sun. God help our church.
Another thing they were talking about was how vital it was in these days not to eat meat, and that anyone who hadn't cut meat completely out of their diet would not be translated. Apparently there is a passage in SOP that says something along those lines. They went on about this for like 10 minutes.
Come on, we know Daniel was praying toward the west because that was toward where the temple had been in Jerusalem. They knew that too, but still there was this strange emphasis. As for the meat...it may well be that those of us still in the remnant after the shaking will all be eating a simple diet without meat...but is that really the point? It's certainly not the vegetarian diet that is going to save anyone, so why give it such undue focus? Where is the focus on Christ and His death on the cross...and His unsearchable love yearning for us to accept His grace?
Our faith in Christ is what will save us. It may indeed be that He will work in us to stop eating meat as we near His coming, but if we haven't placed our true faith and trust in Him in the first place we're going to be lost regardless of what we eat. This is what Christ meant when He said "Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man." (Matt 15:11) There is no saving power in our diet. God help our church.
I was reading my Bible during Sabbath school and this is the passage that Christ brought me to, and had me stay and focus on:
"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy." (James 3:17)
That's a beautiful verse, and the entire passage of James 3:13-18 is so rich with blessings if we meditate on it. Perhaps I'll do a post looking at this passage in the future. We'll see.
My favorite part at church today was singing Hymn #448, "O, When Shall I See Jesus"! That is such an uplifting hymn and it made my spirit soar.
Happy Sabbath :-)
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