Monday, March 16, 2009

Desmond Ford and Questions on Doctrine

As you may already know I have only been a Seventh-day Adventist for 4 years and so I am not "in the know" about all of the wars that have been fought within the confines of the Adventist church.

The Saints Aren't All Saints...

As is the case with many people who come into the Adventist church after God revealing such an enormous amount of truth in their lives, when I came into the church I sort of expected that members of the remnant church I was joining would be these bright shining super-Christians, all full of truth and love and sanctification. After all, any group that was aware of all these profound and beautiful Bible truths must certainly be full of saints. But, as Jim Hohnberger says, "Not all the saints are saints." I have to smile as I write that quote, for what I found when I joined the Seventh-day Adventist church was that it was like any other church in regards to its members, with plenty of knit-picking, criticism, gossip, divisions, sects, etc. etc..

...But They're Still The Remnant

Yet, there is still one thing that sets the Adventist church apart from all other churches: the Truth. The pure, unadulterated, unabashed, naked truth. A truth not come upon by happenstance or by the study of a single man or woman. Instead, the truth as revealed by genuinely God-led study of the Bible by a group of Christians from various denominations who all put their doctrines on the altar of Scriptures to examine them together. What emerged from these series of Bible studies, around 24 sessions in a 2 year period after the great disappointment, was plain Bible truth. God was creating His remnant church, for the end-times had begun. As perhaps the ultimate sign, the gift of prophecy was given to this inspired movement in the person of Ellen White, who confirmed and clarified many of the truths the group had come to through their many lengthy and in-depth Bible studies.

My Introduction To Controversy

Oh yeah, back to the point. Some time ago I had happened upon a set of sermons by a late pastor named Frank B. Phillips. They were very interesting and focused mainly on one grand theme: Righteousness by Faith. Somewhere in his sermons he referenced a book by A.G. Daniells called Christ Our Righteousness which explored the light God revealed to the 1888 Conference in Minneapolis. This message had a very mixed reception by Adventists. Some were indifferent and said, "That's old news, we already know about righteousness by faith," while others were threatened by the message and said, "We cannot remove our focus from the Law of God," and still others accepted the message with their whole heart. Ellen White herself commented a number of times that this message was present truth and should be preached and taken to heart.

Anyway, I was curious about the details of what happened at that 1888 Conference and purchased the book. This was my first introduction to controversy within the church.

The Plot Thickens

Recently, I had downloaded a couple sermons by Herbert Douglass from Audioverse because he left a comment on this blog and I wanted to hear what kind of a message he had. I was thoroughly blessed by his messages, one of which mentioned Desmond Ford and the battle that took place in the early 80's (?). So I did a quick Google search of Desmond Ford and found a little of the story, but not much. I intended to look into the controversy more at a later time.

Then I was listening to a sermon by Stephen Bohr, also downloaded from Audioverse, in which he mentions this guy named Dale Ratzliff whose sole purpose in this life is to destroy the Adventist church he was once a part of. So I did a quick Google search of Dale Ratzliff and found a whole lot of wrong theology attacking Adventist doctrine. This guy's story isn't worth looking at for me since it's just another "Came out of _____ church and now spend all my waking moments attacking that former church instead of focusing on Christ." What is interesting about Dale Ratzliff's story is the chain of events that led up to it. He, and those like him, are the "fruit" of what started with the book Questions on Doctrine, and progressed to the apostasy of Desmond Ford, and ends with the worldliness we see permeating every level of the Adventist church today. Those who apostatize and the doctrines they hold (which are also held by some who remain in the church) are the inevitable result of the very subtle errors introduced by the book Questions on Doctrine.

Long story short there is a new sermon on Audioverse entitled The Apostasy of Desmond Ford which I saw and downloaded. Good stuff! The guy who gave the sermon, Norman Mcnulty I think was his name, gave much more of the unbelievable Desmond Ford story and also some reference to this book that came out in the 50's (?) called Questions on Doctrine, which apparently caused huge theological shifts away from fundamental Adventism. Anyway, I'm going to download the other sermon by this guy where he talks specifically about The History of Questions on Doctrine.

So there's two things I'd like to investigate further to make sure I have the full story:

1.) Desmond Ford's overt attack on Adventist doctrines, and
2.) The book Questions on Doctrine's more subtle attack on Adventist doctrines.

After I get through with a little more research on this subject I'm going to put together a post or two about Desmond Ford and Questions on Doctrine. It's pretty interesting stuff.

Since landing on the Adventist blogosphere a few months ago I have been constantly surprised by the departure from fundamental Adventist theology that I had learned before I joined the church...now it's starting to make a little more sense. Truly, the shaking must be near at hand.

11 comments:

  1. This is interesting.
    Believe me, laxed theology and watered down doctrine can be found in every denomination. I think every church has its liberal faction and its break-away sects...and plenty of those caught in the middle who do not understand true teaching well enough to defend it when its under attack.
    Good luck with your research.

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  2. You hit the nail on the head...the frusterating thing are those people "caught in the middle" who the liberal factions pull away from Christ instead of toward Him.

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  3. Todd, you may experience the victory over sin by the working of the Holy Spirit. When the Spirit of God is working, we all, though live and walk in different places, unite in truth and understanding.

    I am 6 years old adventist christian. I was taught the theology that we continue in sin until Jesus comes back. But very recently, i came across 1888 message and 3 months ago by God's grace I overcame. The joy and inner peace of overcoming the world is amazing. And it is also true saying that persons are the happiest when they walk in the will of God. I assert it because I experience it in my life.

    God's reviving His church. please check out Eugene Prewitt on audioverse. He is a reliable advendist teacher. God bless and be faithful

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  4. Amen and praise God for revealing that we CAN overcome sin by the strength of Christ!

    I am very familiar with Eugene Prewitt and have listening to a great many of his messages on Audioverse...is there one in particular that you think would be a blessing to me? I would love to hear it.

    Thank you for your thoughts and God bless you!

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  5. I think that you should read 1 Cor 13, the famous chapter on love. There is says that love is the greatest principle a Christian can aspire to. Furthermore, and ominous for SDAs, is the part that says if you have the gift of prophecy and do not love, you are nothing. Later in chapter 13 it says that now we prophesy in part. I.e. we don't know all the truth - only in part as the apostle Paul states. Anyone who professes to know everything about an infinite God, has brought God down to the corruptible level of a finite human mind. You've created a God in your own image. That's not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible is too holy to accept the pious works of men. How many times did Jesus condemn the Pharisees for their false piety. The obeyed the commandments, but they had no love for others. I see this Adventists. They look at the 10 commandments as a list of things they have to do - as if their own righteousness can gain them salvation. They are like the Levite in the parable of the good Samaritan. The Levite knew the law back to front. But he walked straight past a man who had been assaulted and robbed and he thought this was ok. A dry preaching of the law without love makes you no better than a Pharisee. In fact the apostle Paul says that love is the fulfilment of the law. If you kept the Sabbath, yet failed to help someone in need then God is displeased with you. We could not get a clearer picture of this than Jesus' ministry. Jesus taught of love and mercy. To be sure, He taught of repentence of sins. But those of us in the process of sanctification should not look down upon those who stumble and fall (as we do from time to time, as King David did, as the apostle Peter also did). We are to help them, love them and help restore them. You need to ask yourself if conservative Adventists do this. Do they emphasize unconditional love to those who need it. Or are the conservatives more interested in bragging about their knowledge of prophecy? Let me provide for us a stark warning from Jesus Himself. He said, in Matthew 7, that on judgement day there will be those be claimed to prophesy in Jesus' name, but then he rejects completely. The issue is whether you have fed the poor, visited the sick and so on (see Matt 25). God is love as John tells us. If we say we love God and we do not love our brother, we are liars (see 1 John). The same John who wrote Revelation, tells us we need to love one another time and time again in 1 John. This is how we know we are sanctified. Truly loving one another - the kind of sacrificial love demonstrated by Jesus - is much harder than attending church each Sabbath and Revelation Bible seminar during the week. You can do these things till your heart is content, but if you have not shown love then you are lost. You think the Pharisees didn't worship every Sabbath? Why would Jesus condemn them so harshly if the issue was simply worshipping on Sabbath? No the issue is that we live in a hateful world and Christians should love everyone, as Christ does. This is the main issue. Conservatives never preach about this love. And I am appealing to conservatives to read the Gospels, read the epistles of Paul and John. You've read Daniel and Revelatio too much. You don't know the rest of the Bible, because if you had you could not be so blind as to the teachings of Jesus.

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  6. I think that you should read 1 Cor 13, the famous chapter on love. There is says that love is the greatest principle a Christian can aspire to. Furthermore, and ominous for SDAs, is the part that says if you have the gift of prophecy and do not love, you are nothing. Later in chapter 13 it says that now we prophesy in part. I.e. we don't know all the truth - only in part as the apostle Paul states. Anyone who professes to know everything about an infinite God, has brought God down to the corruptible level of a finite human mind. You've created a God in your own image. That's not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible is too holy to accept the pious works of men. How many times did Jesus condemn the Pharisees for their false piety. The obeyed the commandments, but they had no love for others. I see this Adventists. They look at the 10 commandments as a list of things they have to do - as if their own righteousness can gain them salvation. They are like the Levite in the parable of the good Samaritan. The Levite knew the law back to front. But he walked straight past a man who had been assaulted and robbed and he thought this was ok. A dry preaching of the law without love makes you no better than a Pharisee. In fact the apostle Paul says that love is the fulfilment of the law. If you kept the Sabbath, yet failed to help someone in need then God is displeased with you. We could not get a clearer picture of this than Jesus' ministry. Jesus taught of love and mercy. To be sure, He taught of repentence of sins. But those of us in the process of sanctification should not look down upon those who stumble and fall (as we do from time to time, as King David did, as the apostle Peter also did). We are to help them, love them and help restore them. You need to ask yourself if conservative Adventists do this. Do they emphasize unconditional love to those who need it. Or are the conservatives more interested in bragging about their knowledge of prophecy? Let me provide for us a stark warning from Jesus Himself. He said, in Matthew 7, that on judgement day there will be those be claimed to prophesy in Jesus' name, but then he rejects completely. The issue is whether you have fed the poor, visited the sick and so on (see Matt 25).

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  7. Fundamental Seventh Day Adventism is the truth. Questions on Doctrine has been responsible for eroding these fundamental truths. Fundamental Adventisim will finish the work as it embraced and lived out by each believer. Victory over sin is imperative and continuing in each believer more and more until the perfect day. The 144,000 God's final people will be without spot or stain before Jesus comes again. It's imperative that we believe the bible over what man says.

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  8. THE BIBLE STATES IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS 12:17---AND THE DRAGON[THE DEVIL REV.12:9]WAS WROTHWITH THE WOMAN[THE CHURH OF GOD OR THE PEOPLE OF GOD.REV.12:1]AND WENT TO MAKE WAR WITH THE REMNANT OF HER SEED ,WHICH KEEK THE COMMANMENTS OF,AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF CHRIST.
    THE DEVIL THAT OLD SERPENT THE DRAGON WILL TRY TO DESTROY GOD'S CHURCH AND GODS PEOPLE BY MAKING PEOPLE BELIEVE A LIE.HE THE DEVIL MIXES LIES WITH TRUTH;SO AS TO CATCH PEOPLE INTO HIS WEB.BUUUUTTT!!!!! DO NOT BE DECIEVED MY BRO/SIS.

    ADDITIONALLY, THOSE FORMERS SDA'S WERE NOT FULLY CONVERTED,THEY HAD AND HAVE NOT GIVEN THERE HEARTS FULLY TO CHRIST.
    BUT WE/I MUST PRAY FOR THEM;SO THAT WHEN THEY ARE CONVERTED THEY CAN FEED THE FLOCK.

    YOURS IN CHRIST
    WILTON SPRINGER

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  9. Wilton Springer,

    How true that Satan is trying now harder than ever to draw away followers of Christ from sound doctrine. Some to the lukewarm laodicean state, some to ignorant zeal for false doctrine...he is using SO many avenues to deceive those who are trying to walk the narrow path, and not turn to the right hand or to the left.

    Prayer is indeed a most powerful weapon in this war for souls!

    God keep you safely abiding under His wing,
    Todd

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    Replies
    1. Hello Brother,

      The former adventist's you've mentioned teach an incomplete gospel. A gospel that stops at forgiveness only. The idea that God (not us) can restore and sanctify us completely is absent in their teaching.The complete gospel that SDA's are called to preach is the forgiving power of Christ and the life changing power of Christ (John 8:11).
      God bless! John
      http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/

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  10. Any one who criticise Desmond ford, must be willing to have his claims subjected to critical analysis. Desmond Ford did not just wake up to make up things: he studied and read widely.

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